Robo’s World

Bushkill Bee Vac

Mar 27th, 2008 by Robo

Get a Bushkill Bee Vac -> HERE

A new approach to a bee vac

I was not happy with the functioning of my current box in a box design bee vac. Don’t get me wrong, the bee vac has become perhaps my most valued tool for doing removals. But it had a few things that frustrated me. Yes it worked great at sucking up the bees and reducing the congestion of bees flying around. It allowed me to collect the majority of the bees and not have to return at a later time to pick up the hive. It also allowed me to bring them home in the car. All important things when you travel long distances to do removals.

The part that seemed less than efficient was getting the bees back out of the screened inner box and into their new Langstroth home. First of all, the screened box wasn’t correctly sized for Langstroth hive bodies, so I was never able to cleanly slide open the bottom trap door and get all the bees into the hive. I tried an empty super on top of the hive, a hive with no frames, and a hive with the center frames removed. Nothing seemed to work well without getting the bees in a uproar again and killing bees. The other thing that made this dumping a frustrating event was that many times I find myself getting home after dark and tired. Not wanting to keep the bees in the vac overnight, I often found myself in the dark and rushing.

I got to thinking and came up with a new design. The idea was based upon the following:

Reduce the stress on the bees by not moving them twice.
Minimal manipulation when I arrive home after dark.
Small, light, and compact.

Why not just suck them into their new hive? So I came up with a bottom and top to place on standard Langstroth hive bodies and suck the bees right into their new hive. The design also allows for the use of your standard shop vac if you don’t want or have a dedicated vacuum for the bee vac. I was able to construct the whole thing out of one 8ft 1×8 and less than half a sheet of Luan.

The bottom is simply a 3″ deep box that has a slanted bottom that is recessed in the box. It allows for a 2-1/4″ hole in the front to attach the inlet vacuum hose. The slanted bottom will ease the bees to the back of the hive and up to the bottom of the hive body and out of the direct air flow.

The top is also a 3″ deep box but has a screened bottom and a slide out top cover. The slide out cover has two holes. Once for the outlet to the vacuum, and a second with a plexiglass cover for a bypass. By opening and closing the plexiglass cover, the amount of suction at the inlet can be adjusted. The reason the cover was designed to slide out is for ventilation during transportation. Once the vacuuming has been completed, the top slides off exposing a wide open screen top which will provide plenty of ventilation.

Another benefit of this design is that the capacity can easily be adjusted by adding additional hive bodies. If it is a small colony, a single hive body can be used as shown in the picture at the top of the article. If it is a bigger colony, a second hive body can be used as shown at the right.

The bottom box has hooks on both sides that allow the whole setup to be held together with a ratchet strap. This will make moving easy without the worry of pieces shifting and bees escaping. To help keep the strap aligned on the top box, small recesses where cut on the edge to keep the strap positioned correctly.

Steps for Using

1. Unpack the bee vac components and based upon the size of the colony, decide how many hive bodies/supers you will need. Assemble the unit by placing the hive bodies/supers on the bottom box, place the top box on the hive bodies and use a ratchet strap to secure the setup.
2. Remove one screw from inlet screen, swing screen out of the way and install suction hose.
3. Install hose from vacuum into the top return port hole, and verify cover locking nail is in place.
4. Turn on the vacuum and adjust the bypass cover to get the desired suction on the inlet hose. You want just enough suction to pull the bees off the comb. Too much suction and you can injure/kill bees if they slam too hard into the hive.
5. Now your set to start sucking up your bees. Go to it!
6. When you have finished sucking up all the bees, with the vacuum still running (so bees don’t come out). Remove the suction hose from the bottom and swing the screen cover back in place. Secure with a screw. Once cover is in place, you can turn off the vacuum.
7. Remove the hose from the vacuum and the cover locking nail. Slide the top cover off. The hive now has plenty of ventilation for transporting.
8. Once you arrive at your destination, you can simply place a cover on top and swing the screen cover open. Once given time to settle in, the hive can be placed on permanent bottom board and fitted with proper covers.

Although I have sized mine for BeeMax polystyrene hives, it could be easily sized to work with standard wooden Langstroth hives. It would work equally as well with medium depth or 8-frame equipment.

If anyone is interested in this bee vac, but does not have the means to build one, Contact Me and perhaps I can help.

Modifications

Integrated Vacuum Motor
So you don’t want to drag around your shop vac or your shop vac has a removable blower. You can simply make an adapter to mount to the top cover. If you do this, make sure you mount it on the back of the cover like I have done so that you can slide off the cover for ventilation without having to remove the ratchet strap.

Cut-Out Shim
The cut-out shim allows for the adding of brood comb, that has been mounted in frames, to the vac hive when doing feral colony removals. It is simply a 1 inch thick shim that as a groove cut in the interior sides that allows for #8 hardware cloth to be slid in place. I have added two metal rods down the middle to prevent sagging of the hardware cloth. After using this shim a few times, I have concluded the rods could be considered optional but do add protection for the shim when not in use. The shim is simply placed between two supers when assembling the vac. I put frames in the bottom super and leave the top super empty. This keeps the bees that are vacuumed up in the lower super. Once you are done with the cut-out, you can remove the top of the vacuum and insert the frames with your brood into the upper empty super. Reinstall the top of the vac and re-cinch the ratchet strap. Then just slide the #8 hardware cloth out of the shim which allows the vacuumed bees to be reunited with the brood.

8-frame version made from a deep hive body

Here is an email and photos I received of an 8-frame version built by Ash Nelson. Awsome job Ash, thanks for sharing.

Thanks again for posting this design. I thoroughly enjoyed this project and it’s simple execution. I did make the bottom piece flat instead of angled. It was just a little easier to do and if I need to change it later I can just cut the new bottom piece so that it just sits inside at an angle.

I decided to make this bee vac out of an unassembled hive body – I bought a commercial grade deep for 8 frame hives, since that’s what I have. You could just as easily do this with a 10 frame deep, but it would just be more cumbersome. The 8 frame is a nice manageable size for a bee vac. With one deep I was able to cut all of the pieces I needed to make the sides of the bee vac, with no waste.

This project was fun and relatively simple. Once it was finished I was hoping to test it out on some styrofoam peanuts, but unfortunately we had already hauled them off. I can’t wait to put it to use!

See more photos of Ash’s bee vac here.

105 Comments »

105 Responses to “Bushkill Bee Vac”

on 16 Apr 2008 at 1:27 am1bryan

thinking of building a swarm sucker myself. if i used a standard 10 frame deep with a slideout bottom don’t see why you couldn’t just set it on top of a box with frames, slide out the bottom board and let the bees fall or crawl down into their new home. seems like you could leave for the night if you wanted, go back the next day, smoke ‘em a little if you had to, remove the swarm sucker and put on a regular top cover.

you said the above didn’t work particularly well for you. what problem did you encounter?
on 16 Apr 2008 at 6:33 pm2Robo

bryan,

A few points that lead to my dissatisfaction.
- When sliding out the bottom of your box, it is challenging not to get bees caught in the edge and killing them.
- You will inevitably suck of debris when doing your removal and it will get dumbed into the top of the hive.
- Some bees will die in the process as well and will get dumbed into the hive, depending upon how many die, and the debris sucked up, you can end up with a blanket of “stuff” on top of the hive and between the frames.
- Bees tend to move up and I think you will find that they won’t just move down into your hive, but rather cluster to the top of your vac box and start building comb there if it is left on top.
on 10 Jun 2008 at 5:12 pm3Richard

Why don’t you make both the top and bottom slides, on one side cover it with screen so that when you go to hive you can open the screened side spray bees with sugar water then shake them to one side open other side and shake into hive like hiving a package of bees? Just my two cents. I haven’t made one yet just looking for plans and thought this might be a good idea for your construction.
on 10 Jun 2008 at 6:38 pm4Robo

Richard,

What you described is the usual box within a box design.

Using one of that type is what lead me to build this new one. I don’t want to shake and dump the bees anymore than needed. The trip down the hose an into the vacuum is enough trauma for them. I also dislike dumping because of any debris that you suck up ends on top of the bees as well. This way the bees get sucked in once and are in the hive. Once settled, I just pick it off the bottom and place it on a bottom board with no additional stress on the bees and all the debris remains in the bottom.
on 08 Jul 2008 at 2:06 pm5Johnny

Daddy and I had a cutout to do a cpl weeks ago and built a copy of your vac.

It worked great. Sucked up 3 or 4 lbs bees and had very few dead on bottom when through. Will never do another cutout without vac.

Thanks for the idea.

Johnny
on 30 Jul 2008 at 12:17 pm6Brian J.

Thanks for posting this excellent design. I built one out of scrap lumber in my shop last week. My beekeeping buddy and I used it for a large cut out 2 days ago. It was amazingly gentle on the bees and made the job at hand easy. I set it up with a deep with 6 frames of pierco foundation. I tied (with string wraps) the brood comb we removed into wooden deep frames as we went along. Wound up with 9 frames of brood. We then spritzed 1:1 sugar water on the bees through the top screen and slid the brood comb box on while sliding the screened top section over and off, then moved the top quickly up, over and down on top again. Unfortunately I did smash a dozen bees with that maneuver but we got the brood back to them. Looking forward to using the vac again. I plan on making another so we each have one at hand in our vehicles for swarm calls. Thanks again for sharing your great design, Best regards Brian
on 01 Oct 2008 at 7:28 am7Jim R.

Thanks for sharing your design. You mentioned that one reason for this design was to prevent debris from being dumped into the hive. Doesn’t the junk still get sucked up between the frames? How many frames did you put in the hive body? How did you add brood to avoid the problems mentioned by Brian J?
on 01 Oct 2008 at 10:27 am8Robo

Doesn’t the junk still get sucked up between the frames?
The volume of the super makes the air velocity drastically decrease once it exits the hose. This causes the majority of the debris (and bees) to drop out of the air flow. If you suck up some really light debris, like fiberglass insulation, it will continue towards the vacuum motor, but will end up on the upper screen and not in between frames.
How many frames did you put in the hive body?
I put 10 frames in the hive body, a combination of empty frames and frames with comb. If you put less than 9 frames in the box, there is a chance they will slide sideways and fall off the frame rests when you move it.
How did you add brood to avoid the problems mentioned by Brian J?
I use polystyrene nucs to carry home the frames that have the cut-out brood. Depending on the amount of bees, I add a box on top with these frames, or replace the empty frames with them once I get the hive situated in the new location.

rob…
on 13 Nov 2008 at 6:56 am9John M

Hi
Thanks for sharing a great design.
I really want to build one.
Just one query – Do you use the vacuum, mainly for the removal of established hives, or also for new swarm removal ?
I mean if a ball of swarm bees, is hanging from an accessible small tree branch, for instance, would you just knock it into a box. In the conventional way. And not use the vacuum ?
Regards John
on 13 Nov 2008 at 8:28 am10Robo

John,

I now use it for both cut-outs and hanging swarms. I cover a large area, so a good portion of the time, I need to do the removal in just one visit. Also with gas prices, I prefer to use my car instead of a truck, so with the bee vac, I can go and suck the bees up, load the in the car and not worry about bees being loose in the car. Here is a hanging swarm that was ~25ft up. I left the vac on the ground and used a ladder and long hose to suck them up.
on 13 Nov 2008 at 6:23 pm11John M

Yes, it certainly must be so much more convenient, to only have to make one trip.
With cutouts, I suppose it inevitably involves some demolition work, on buildings. To remove all the comb. I suppose you would have to charge a reasonable fee. Are there some beehives you wouldn’t try to remove ?

John
on 22 Dec 2008 at 1:50 pm12Justin Hart

Very nice idea – looks too easy. Have you made any improvements lately? Are the hose diameters important features? Thinking about 2-1/2 at the bee end and 1-1/4 going into the vacuum.
on 22 Dec 2008 at 2:22 pm13Robo

Justin,
I find 2-1/2 hose works best on the bee end. I do have a 25′ length of 1 -1/4 I use for those really high swarms. It does work, but it is easy to clog with gobs of bees when trying to suck a hanging swarm.
I have my vac mounted on the top, so I don’t use a hose for the vac. 1-1/4 is much more restrictive than 2-1/2, but it may work fine if you close down the bypass (velocity doesn’t matter on the outbound air). It would definitely be easier to transport.

Rob…
on 22 Dec 2008 at 2:30 pm14Robo

John,

I try not to remove bees in trees if at all possible. I try to convince the owner to let them be. Of course there are situations where the tree is in a location that it could/would be an issue with people near by. I also have a church with a slate roof that has a nest above the cathedral. I would not want to mess with slate roofing or the cathedral ceiling. The way the church is situated on a steep hill and the cemetery right next to it, scaffolding or a lift truck would also be difficult. So we have decided to let them be as well. They have been there 4 years now without issue. So although there are some rare situations, for the most part, there aren’t too many cut-outs I haven’t attempted.
on 23 Dec 2008 at 7:00 am15John M

I have heard that queens usually do not survive bee vacuums, in general.
Just wondering, if you have experienced many vac collections, where the queen survived OK ?
on 23 Dec 2008 at 8:37 am16Robo

John,
Excellent question. When doing cut-outs, I usually remove the comb one section at a time, inspect it for the queen and then suck the bees into the vac. Doing this, I am able to find and cage the queen better than 80% of the time and eliminate any possible issues with killing her. With hanging swarms I can’t do this and just gently suck up all the bees. I would guess that I end up without a queen ~10% of the time when I am unable the find and cage here. Of course, I can’t attribute this totally to the bee vac, there may not have been a queen, or I could of killed her some other way.
The key is to make sure you adjust the bypass so that there is just barely enough suction to pull in the bees. You want to use the tool on the end of the vac hose to help break the bees foot hold on the comb, not just the suction. Another key point to bee survival in the beevac is don’t let them over heat. Keep the vac out of the sun and provide them water thru the screen periodically. Also try not to suck up any bees covered with honey when doing cut outs, otherwise you just end up with a sticky ball of dead bees.

Rob…
on 22 Jan 2009 at 6:19 pm17Brian

Rob, excellent idea. Where did you find the 2 1/2″ hose? I am compiling all my supplies and have yet to find the hose.

Thanks again for your work and documentation on this.

Brian.
on 22 Jan 2009 at 6:47 pm18Robo

Brian,

I use shop vac hose available at the home improvement stores. It comes on 8-10′ sections and I just couple as many sections together as I need.

rob….
on 23 Jan 2009 at 3:45 pm19Brian

Rob, I bought them last night, found them at Lowes 8ft for $20.
Thanks again for your work on this, I will send photos of the completed project.

Thanks again.

Brian.
on 23 Jan 2009 at 4:05 pm20Robo

Great! Looking forward to the photos…. rob
on 24 Jan 2009 at 6:21 pm21Brian

Rob, I finished the Bee Vacuum, you can see photos here.

http://www.plantedparadise.com/Bee-Vacuum

Thanks again!

Brian.
on 24 Jan 2009 at 9:07 pm22Robo

Brian,

Fantastic! Looks awesome. I hope it works as well for you tomorrow as it has for me and the others. Thanks for the photos, and keep us posted.

rob…
on 15 Feb 2009 at 3:16 pm23Brian

Rob, just wanted to send you some videos of the removal using the bee vacuum you designed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYjPMFtRSnY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMGeaEcQI-k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODrQpqhKibQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex-uaAHRjfo

Overall, the removal went really well. My father assisted and the vac clogged twice. No problems other than that. I figure that I lost about 10% of the bees during the process. Possibly more, I won’t know until I take a look inside next week.

Thanks again!

Brian
on 15 Feb 2009 at 6:37 pm24ArmucheeBee

Robo

I made a vac today using your plan. My question is, do you have a problem with not getting an “air-tight” seal where boxes meet or where the screen is stapled to the top box and where the screen box meets the hive body? Have not hooked the vac to it yet.
Thanks for the website.
on 15 Feb 2009 at 6:45 pm25Robo

If you use a big enough powered vac, it shouldn’t be an issue. I have also put 3/4″ self-adhesive weatherstripping around the edges of the top and bottom that comes in contact with the hive bodies. I have found it best to leave the paper on the weatherstripping to prevent it from sticking to the hive bodies and ripping apart when you separate them.
on 16 Feb 2009 at 8:46 am26Robo

Brian,

Thanks for the video links. It is always nice to get feedback and see how it works out for others.

rob..
on 18 Feb 2009 at 10:42 am27Michael D'Orazio

Wow, that is really cool. You could “maybe” be more efficient if you had one of those cordless jobs. Then you could then just bring a couple of batteries with you and not have to plug anything up or run an extension cord.
on 18 Feb 2009 at 11:04 am28Robo

That is an option I suppose, but I would have my concerns with it.

1. 99% of the removals I do have power within 100ft, so a 100ft extension cord reel is a cost effective solution. For the rare occasion of no power, I take my small Honda generator. Granted if you don’t have access to a generator it may be an alternative.

2. I’m not sure the horsepower on the cordless vacs, but I have found my 5HP vac to come in handy on some jobs that required long runs of hose. Even if you could get a cordless with that kind of horsepower I would imagine it would be pricey.

3. Battery run time. I would want to have at least one spare battery as a backup in case things took longer than expected or “other” type issues that leave you with a dead battery. Once again increasing the cost of the solution and adding to more “stuff” to drag around and/or forget.

So although it is an alternative option, I’m not convinced it would be more efficient as cordless tools add a lot more variables/issues to the mix.

The shop vac mounted on the cover greatly reduces the complexity and amount of equipment to lug around.
on 24 Feb 2009 at 7:38 pm29Steven Rosales

Rob thanks for sharing this, it looks like a great design. I would like to build one, but have some questions. What kind of tools/machines did you use? What kind of screen is that? Is that window screen? Are the wood frames made from a 1 X 4?

I have a miter saw and a drill. I can borrow a hand skill saw to cut the Luan with. How did you make the grooves for the sliding and slanted pieces, or the notches on the frame? I assume I would need a table saw to build this.
I am making a trip to Home Depot and putting together a shopping list.
Thanks
Steve
on 25 Feb 2009 at 8:48 am30Robo

Hi Steve,
Yes I used a table saw to build mine. The top and slanted bottom are in dadoes, which I used because it makes a cleaner, lighter, easier to use design. With that said, I don’t believe they are necessary, and a equally functional unit could be built without them. The slanted bottom is not critical, a flat bottom could be used, or you could hold a slanted bottom in place by nailing quarter round molding on each side if you wanted to. As far as the top, you could just screw in on instead of the slide. I would just suggest making slots for the ratchet strap so that it could be under, so the top could be removed without loosening the strap. Depending on how much you are going to use it, threaded inserts might be a better option than just screwing into the wood, as continuous screwing and unscrewing into wood becomes stripped out.
The screen is #8 hardware cloth. I used this because it is more rigid and will hold up better to abuse. I also have it around because I use it for other beekeeping projects. I see no reason why window screen couldn’t be used if you don’t have #8.
I buy rough cut 1×8 from a local mill and build all my stuff from that. Once again, there is nothing magical about the size of the sides. I think I made mine ~3″. The only thing to consider is the size of the hose you want to use on the bottom and make sure you make it deep enough. I use the standard 2 1/2″ shp vac hose on mine. For the top, make it deep enough for the hose to extend in with out hitting the screen. Or if you plan on attaching the blower motor to the top make sure it is deep enough for that to clear.
Good luck and let me know how you make out.
on 27 Mar 2009 at 12:43 am31Joseph

Stupid question. Do you leave the frames in place when you use the vacuum?
Thanks,
Joseph
on 28 Mar 2009 at 7:30 am32Robo

Joseph,

It’s not a stupid question. Yes I leave the frames in. You can pour some water into the combs before you start so that it is available to the bees and you don’t need to spray the top screen. You can also use foundationless frames to give more space.

rob..
on 12 Apr 2009 at 11:15 pm33Roger G. Byerley

I read your instructions, not carefully enough, and skipped on to another. Then came back a re-read your instructions. What the others lack is the saving of the bees. Beware of those who “remove” for profit honey bees. Removal usally means by any means! Your plans still have some missing points, though bee keeping has go on for centuries, the bee vaccum has not. You have many good ideas I have kept bees for over fifty years, perfection of a vaccum seems to be a trial and error method; keep up the good work. Say, could you work on the “CD” Colony Disaperance, maybe just maybe you have some plans for this problem.
Roger (P.S.) (Notes for constructionuse one sided l/2 sponge tape between boxes, for tight seal, if this is not tight enough use “construction grade liquid nails, follow this with silcone, the tape all with wide tape. Also, I find two (2) straps around the unit better. Use constructed supers, because most frame home have 2×4 construction, rubber band brood, to empty frames. If you find a queen, then catch her in a cage, and hold her seperate, so that she is not injured.
on 13 Apr 2009 at 10:36 am34Robo

Notes for constructionuse one sided l/2 sponge tape between boxes, for tight seal, if this is not tight enough use “construction grade liquid nails, follow this with silcone, the tape all with wide tape.

I recommend using the weather stripping on the top and bottom sections of the vac and just use standard supers in between. The objective of the design is to be able to use your standard hive bodies without modification. If you use an underpowered vacuum perhaps joint leakage would be a concern, but otherwise it is not. If there is a bad joint, duct tape is a simple and temporary fix while vacuuming. I’m not sure most people would consider using liquid nails to join hive bodies together as acceptable. It seems you would have to destroy the hive bodies to get them apart and get at the bees and frames.

Also, I find two (2) straps around the unit better.
The intent of the strap is just to hold the assembly together. I have never had an issue with just having one strap and often use the strap as a handle to carry the whole thing. I am unaware of any of the beekeepers who have built my design having issues either, and I know some have used the vac for over 100 swarms. If a 2nd strap gives you more assurance, then by all means use 2, but I don’t believe it is needed.

rubber band brood, to empty frames.
Rubber bands do work, but they are my 2nd choice. I find split frames much more convenient.

If you find a queen, then catch her in a cage, and hold her seperate, so that she is not injured.
Absolutely, I find the queen about 80% of the time and cage her. Then release her into the hive when it is situated back at my yard.

PS. I have no issue with CCD so will not be doing anything specific to it. I find the best defense to all these issues is to use feral acclimated stock and I don’t do any preventative chemical treatments.
on 07 May 2009 at 5:15 pm35Steve

What would be the minimum HP vac you would use on your plans. I see you have a 5HP, but I was thinking of using only 1 medium or) maybe i deep as I do not get into removals (yet) but would like to have a vac handy for swarm removals. Thanks…your plans are fantastic!
on 08 May 2009 at 7:49 am36Robo

I can’t really say, I have never tried anything small, though I know some people have. Keep in mind, the size of the boxes has very little to do with the suction as they don’t add resistance. It is the diameter and length of the hose that has the biggest effect. When I have to use my 25ft of 1 1/2″ hose, I have to close the bypass completely off. I always recommend going bigger on the vac and using the bypass, otherwise you risk not having enough suction when your forced to add some more hose.

rob…
on 14 Jun 2009 at 9:12 pm37Steve Golten

You guys are all better wood workers than I am!! I built one using standard 2X4 box with a plywood floor under it with the 2 1/4 hole in the 2×4 for the inlet hose. I used some 3/4 inch particle board with a 12″ x 14″ hole cut from the center with screen over it for the top cover. Over that i built another 2×4 frame with a plywood top and 2 2 1/4″ holes. One hole for the shop vac and the other for ventilation. I used some scrap lumber i had laying around and it works great!! I have a total of $7.25 invested in parts (I had to buy some screen) and about 3 hours in assembly. Great design. I can’t wait to try it for real.
on 16 Jun 2009 at 10:49 am38Robo

Steve,
Good for you. I have great respect for people who get out there and take on a project to their level of ability. It is just so easy these days to find people who either buy everything or do without. A lot of the stuff I come up with is spurred by something else I have seen and I put my own spin on it to meet my needs. You have used your head and done the same. Other than being a little heavier than mine, it should work just as well. I always get great satisfaction when I build my own stuff, and I’m sure you will experience that same satisfaction when you use it. Good luck and would love to see some pictures and I’m sure it would inspire others with limited skills/resources to maybe try and build one.

rob…
on 03 Jul 2009 at 11:54 am39Eric I.

Working on mine now. Decided to just cut one of my extra supers in half and use it. It’s going pretty well so far. I did have a thought on having to climb ladders to get at swarms. I am going to have a dedicated extension ladder with a rigid(pvc) hose/pipe permanently attached to the ladder. I figure that fire departments do it so it should work. At the top I will attach a short flexible “working end” hose and at the bottom, another flexible hose going to the box. Perhaps, one of the reasons bees are killed when being sucked up, is that the hoses are ribbed and you can imagine their bodies bouncing across those rough surfaces on the inside of the hose as they are sucked in, not to mention the final impact. Perhaps a smoother surface might help. Additionally, the hose won’t be flopping around and if you drop it, you can still get to it without climbing down. Place a little “holster” at the top also to tuck it into when I need both hands. Just what i’m working on.
on 03 Jul 2009 at 2:01 pm40RC Hart

Robo,
Sharp looking unit and I am trying to construct one with the aid of carpenter, I lack wood working skills. Took my Skill saw back to the hardware store for a refund, they asked why; told’m there is no skill in that saw…anyhow, I have questions:
How is the diagonal groove cut for the slanting bottom boards?
The picture next to item 7 above, are those frames in the hive box, or some type of additional bracing?
Really like the cut-out shim, only problem is finding #8 wire cloth (using screening for the top box for now).
Thank you for sharing your idea and assistance given. I am very new to this hobby, March ’09; did my first tree cut-out 2 weeks ago and another neighbor is waiting on me as I type this message….
on 03 Jul 2009 at 4:37 pm41Robo

Cool, would love to see some pictures when you get it done.

rob…
on 03 Jul 2009 at 4:46 pm42Robo

How is the diagonal groove cut for the slanting bottom boards?

I cut them on a table saw using a taper jig.

The picture next to item 7 above, are those frames in the hive box, or some type of additional bracing?

Yes, there are 3 frames centered in the hive body.

Really like the cut-out shim, only problem is finding #8 wire cloth (using screening for the top box for now).

There is nothing magic about #8. Any screen that is rigid enough and doesn’t let bees through will work fine.

Good Luck
rob….
on 10 Jul 2009 at 2:25 am43Gary Holt

I have a few polystyrene nucs. They have two holes in the front and one in the back. What do you think conceptually of simply putting a vacuum hose on the back screened hole, the front hose on the front unscreened hole, and use the other front hole (screened) for suction control? When one nuc is full, I can just pull off the hoses and put them on the next empty one? How can you tell when a box is full?
on 12 Jul 2009 at 7:05 pm44Robo

What do you think conceptually of simply putting a vacuum hose on the back screened hole, the front hose on the front unscreened hole, and use the other front hole (screened) for suction control?
I think you will have issues with the suction end clogging up and killing bees. You will have full suction at the screen and the bees will not be able to overcome it. I’d also be worried about overheating during transporting. This is a common issue with polystyrene nucs.
When one nuc is full, I can just pull off the hoses and put them on the next empty one?
Sounds great on paper, but I think you will run into difficulties unless you modify the nucs to have a larger screened off area to reduce the suction.
How can you tell when a box is full?
Most box designs have some type of window for monitoring.
on 16 Jul 2009 at 11:35 pm45Gary Holt

Well, I tried it out the morning before I got your reply. It actually worked ok. I positioned the frames so they would not let bees be sucked straight to the rear screened vent hole. However, it wouldn’t suck bees off the comb, I had to nudge them sometimes. For this reason I think I need to seal some cracks and connections with duct tape or get a slightly stronger vacuum. I was using a Dirt Devel hand vacuum and one inch plastic hose.
on 17 Jul 2009 at 8:15 am46Robo

Keep us posted on how it goes. Hopefully the stronger vac won’t pose issues with the suction screen.

rob…
on 17 Jul 2009 at 11:41 am47Gary Holt

I was just reading some of your other posts. I did get bunching of bees sometimes although it didn’t seem to kill them. I just paniced for a second while I tried to free them. I think a funnel contraption adapting a larger hose to the smaller hose (nuc vent holes are 1 inch) would cause the same problem. The hole size in the nuc might just make this non-optimal no matter what vacuum I use.
on 19 Jul 2009 at 11:35 am48Stephen

I used your concept with some alterations and am pleased with the result- sucked up a 10 lb swarm yesterday- biggest one I’ve ever captured. I used a 2.5 HP vacuum and 1.5 inch pipe- the only caveat is NOT to use the corregated pipe that comes with shop vac- I bought clear plastic tubing (6 feet at $4/foot) and a 10 section of 1.5″ ABS; all fine and good except I was 5 feet short on my length estimate! I was foreced to use the corregated hose at the upper end- I think that bounced the bees a bit too much but I still only lost maybe two heaping handfulls.
The next day I used the upper motor chamber to blow bees out of my comb honey supers for harvest- worked great. Another application would be to place atop a stack of extracting supers that may need a reduction in moisture- put ‘em in the hot room over night and suck warm dry air over the combs. Thanks for the lucid plans, Stephen
on 19 Jul 2009 at 5:31 pm49Robo

I can’t speak for the 1.5″ hose, but I regularly use 24′ of 2 1/4″ shop vac hose without issue. On most cut-outs, I have less than a handful of dead bees in the vac when done. With smaller diameter hose, they are hitting the hose wall more, so that combined with the corrugation might be too much.

rob…
on 09 Aug 2009 at 1:58 pm50Jim Hensel

I took the the “Cut out shim” a step further.

I made two bottoms (where the hose attached), two screen covers that loook a lot like the cut out shim and one motor unit.

My layer cake is Bottom, deep, screen, top.
I can then vaccuum two deeps full of bees with one motor unit.
I just vacuum the first deep, then pull the top motor unit and put it on a new bottom/deep/screen combo and go at it again. Either a very large takeout or two jobs in one trip.
on 14 Aug 2009 at 8:50 am51Robo

Jim,
Nice job, thanks for sharing your modifications.

I can then vacuum two deeps full of bees with one motor unit. Either a very large takeout or two jobs in one trip.

For the large jobs, I just stack 2 deeps in the vacuum from the start. For multiple removals in one day, I just use another bottom and top rim. I slide the motor plate off one top and slide it into the 2nd top. I don’t get many swarms, but more cut-outs, so I usually need the cut-out shims to reintroduce the brood and queen.

Glad to see vac is working out good for you and I’ll keep you method in mind if I get myself into a pinch.

rob….
on 29 Aug 2009 at 10:16 am52John

I love the design and am thinking of trying it out. My question is can i suck out a swarm that has put itself into a location i can’t get to??? There is a swarm that went into some piping at the base of a telephone pole and are not lodged in that and underground. They are relatively new – perhaps two weeks at most. I can’t cut away any of the comb and can’t really even get in to see them. Can I just stick the vac in and try to pull them out or do you have other suggestions? It is also late in the season (I’m in CT) and the likelihood of them surviving in there is slim to none. If i can get some of them out and then get a queen, then they might have a chance. I’d appreciate any and all thoughts!

Thanks,
John
on 29 Aug 2009 at 10:33 am53Robo

John,

Unfortunately it is not that simple. Once they take residence in a void, they immediately start building comb and raising brood and are no longer considered a “swarm”. You will not be able to suck them out blindly. They will be nestled in between the combs and the suction you would need to even attempt it would be deadly too them. Even if you could get a fair amount, it is too late in the season to have a queen start laying from scratch and be prepared for winter. It takes roughly a month from when she lays the first egg until new bees hatch, by that time a good portion of your captured bees will be dying off. You really need at least 3 brood cycles for them to stand a chance at being prepared for winter. At this point, the only potential option that I can suggest is to heavily feed them where they are in hopes you can get them through winter and then do a trap out next spring.

rob…
on 08 Sep 2009 at 9:53 am54John Gregory

Considering making bee vac using 18 volt/1 HP vacuum.
Is 1 HP powerful enough?
on 10 Sep 2009 at 10:46 am55Robo

I think you are really pushing it with just 1 HP. I have heard some that have claimed 1.5 HP works, but you need to be very careful to eliminate any leaks and use a short hose. I prefer and recommend large HP vac as you can always regulate the suction down with the bypass, but you can never add more that the vac produces. I’ve been in too many situations where I ended up needing to add another section of hose and without the needed HP, I would have been out of luck. I find it easier to keep the vac on the ground than having to lug it up a ladder for those high removals.
on 10 Dec 2009 at 10:21 am56Eric I

Well, I finished my vac and it worked well although I found that sucking bees out of a downed tree is ok until it starts raining. Found that to be a challenge. I only got to use the vac twice this year but already have three dwellings to work in the spring and more as word gets out. I will make a few modifications and tweak it as I go. I am using a generator on the back of my truck to power the rig as most of these are located in places without electricity. I wanted to post photos but it’s hard to do when you’re by yourself. Still, all in all, a great design.
on 08 Jan 2010 at 10:02 am57Jairo dos Santos Prata

I’m from Brazil, live in Uberaba, Minas Gerais, Rua Marques Ronan Martins, 90 Bairro Universitário, work with migratory beekeeping since 1985, had been developing a project in order to suck the natural swarm, but was not giving anything right. Your project came in handy, will run with some improvement, but I liked a lot. If you have more good ideas out there please can we change them to improve our bee management. I hope to be happy in that year of 2010. Thanks for the project. I hope to write more to you and also receive answers.
on 08 Jan 2010 at 3:03 pm58Robo

Jairo,

I am glad you found my project helpful. I would like to hear more of your project and changes you have made. Would love to see pictures as well. Best wishes to you in 2010 as well.

Rob….
on 08 Jan 2010 at 8:06 pm59Jairo dos Santos Prata

Hello, I had tried to accomplish this project, but did not produce the same effect. But seeing your project, very good by the way, it works as is, but I’ll make some changes that are the fabric of transport is on the nest, will be exactly the box measures linen, will be placed 5cm pieces of the edges lower the cap that receives the vacuum to fit over the nest, and inside the queen excluder, queens, and in the admissora will also be placed on slats on its top edge where the nest will fit inside. This done to give more security transport, as it will prevent the joint depart. Will be pasted within these strips, strips of carpet to improve the sealing of the assembly. Only this. I wish you’d spent your email for later contacts.
on 16 Jan 2010 at 5:06 pm60Jairo dos Santos Prata

Apiamigo Hello! If so I can call it. If you join the network Orkut, my name is Father Jairo your design is great, really you are too, will contribute much to my catch of the city and even to gather at the home of bees and honey bees in packages with adjustments. I would like to thank him and congratulate him for the invention. Thank you. When my vacuum cleaner is built, which will have few changes, with great pleasure I bring to your knowledge. I’ll post pictures of him with great pleasure. If it were possible, I would like to send me some project outside individual feeders that you should be designed.
on 18 Jan 2010 at 10:54 am61Robo

Jairo, I just sent you my email address if you have pictures or anything else you would like to send me.

rob…
on 01 Feb 2010 at 11:47 am62Michael S

Thanks for posting all this info. What about installing the outlet hole for the vaccum in the side of the upper box instead of in the plywood top? For those of us who are not planning to use a dedicated vac, the side hole would be more durable the one in the 1/4 inch plywood.
on 08 Feb 2010 at 11:57 am63Robo

Michael,

I don’t see a problem with doing as you suggest. The suction won’t get distributed as evenly on the bee side of the top screen as it does with the outlet in the top, but there is still plenty of surface area that I doubt bees will get sucked to the screen. Although I haven’t had any issues with connecting the hose in the Luan, I can foresee issues depending upon the hose end used. The soft flexible ones seem to work best. A small 1/2″ or so adapter block could be added to the top as an option. I have done that with the by-pass gate, but not for hose adapting, but to allow the screen to be placed on top of the Luan to make sliding the cover on and off easier.

rob…
on 19 Mar 2010 at 9:12 am64Dave

Do you have a PDF of this article or the plans in a PDF file? I want to reproduce it but cant print this page to aid me.

Dave
on 22 Mar 2010 at 8:09 pm65Robo

Dave,
A set of measured drawings is in the works.
Rob..
on 22 Mar 2010 at 9:09 pm66Dave

Thanks! I am sure I am not the only one who will appreciate them!

BTW – I am finishing a version of your frame jig tomorrow. I have 200 frames to build and I am confident it will make the job much simpler.

Thanks for sharing this information!

Dave
on 16 May 2010 at 8:19 pm67David

Thanks so much for this posting i made a crude copy (not the best wood worker) had all of your features slotted top slanted bottom (no dado’s) lots of gorilla glue to make up for miss cuts
did first cut out large colony in apt bldg 2 deeps worth
maybe 2 handfulls of dead bees and i think we got the queen your design is very simple and worked great

THANKS AGAIN IT IS GREAT THAT A CREATIVE PERSON LIKE YOU POSTED THIS
on 28 May 2010 at 2:13 pm68Karessa

Awesome! Thanks so much for posting this! I was just about to try building a bee vac from a different plan, but hiving the bees directly makes so much more sense.
on 14 Jun 2010 at 10:06 pm69Chris Sims

I made an exact copy of you design and used it on a cut out of epic size. The hive was 2 foot wide by 10 foot tall by 4 inches thick. There were 12 sections of comb and everything went off with out a hitch with the exception of trying to use a 1 1/4″ vac hose and a 2 1/4″ suction for the bees. Not a good idea. I then changed in the middle of the cut out and used both 2 1/4″ hoses and went great. We vaccumed approx 25 pounds of bees out of the colony. We ended up using 2 deeps and a mid honey super and vaccumed until it would not suck any more. We filled all three boxes to the hilt and the vac just kept on working. We did use the corogated shop vac hose and in the end had approx. 100 dead bees in the end. I am so glad that I found your plans and built this thing. I would have ever been able to get this large of a hive in one day by any other means. Cudos to your design and imagine hand shaking 25 lbs of bees out of a standard bee vac………………….. Thanks Chris
on 15 Jun 2010 at 8:14 am70Robo

Chris,
Thanks for the feedback. I too have had good luck using the 2 1/2″ corrugated shop vac hose. May you have continued success with your vac.

Rob….
on 19 Jun 2010 at 7:57 am71jane b

Another beek & I just finished up a HUGE cutout–I’m talking 3 days. He had built one of your vacs, & when I saw it, I whipped one up that evening using parts I already had. The only thing I did different was strapping the containment unit together first, then strapping on the top & bottom vac units. I can take the top unit off onsite to allow ventilation (re-strapping for the trip home), and once I get to the apiary, I remove the bottom vac unit and place the whole containment section directly on the hive base. Unstrap and slide the strap out.

I am using a 2 1/2 hose for bee intake and a small “Hang Up” ShopVac brand vacuum with the smaller hose. Had a little trouble with air leakage between the sections (I use weatherstripping on the top & bottom vac pieces), but wrapping that with duct tape solved the problem. Wonderful suction, and fully adjustable.

Still noodling how to work in another screen shim to slide in *after* the girls are collected.
on 04 Jul 2010 at 1:57 am72Ken

Bought one from you last year. It is a great product. I have a very low mortality rate with this setup. I have used it at least 6 times this year and have 3 more cutouts setup and also a huge colony in a tree (on a branch).

Need to make me a second one as I need to go to SC and do a cutout in a house that has a huge amount of bees which have been there since before 1980!
on 20 Jul 2010 at 2:02 pm73Eric I

Well….I’ve used mine a number of times and have to build one more as a spare. My father and I are partnered and sometimes we have too many in a weekend or large colonies so we’ll have two set up and a generator on the truck for power(fully 65% of the places we go have no electricity). When I transport the box/vac back to the yard, I leave them in the box for a day or two before I pull it apart to insure that the pheremones are set, so to speak. I made my top with a sliding lid which I seal with tape while in use. Remove the tape and spritz them down with syrup and come back in a day or to replace the bottom and top. At that point they are settled and usually building comb. I’ve got frames set up to hold some of their comb and brood and I get those in fairly quick.

I have found that with the low pressure and when pulling a large colony, the hose sometimes gets clogged so I’m thinking of using a smoothe hose. I have not built the ladder hose yet but will probably do so this winter. We’re getting more and more calls this year as people find out about us. Several pest-control companies refer people to us so that’s good.
on 18 Aug 2010 at 1:55 pm74Richard

In the picture with the bottom, top, and the slide part with the holes, the slanted bottom doesn’t appear to go all the way to the back??? If not why. A buddy and I are getting into bee keeping and need to make a vacuum system to capture a hive that a sheriff friend of ours needs removed. Thanks for all the good info on this site.
on 18 Aug 2010 at 2:57 pm75Robo

It actually does go all the way to the back, but sits about 1/2″ down from the top. The dark space you see is the inside of the back piece between where the bottom mates and the top edge.

-Rob…
on 27 Aug 2010 at 12:53 pm76Bill

Rob,
Just a quick note to let you know I finished my bee vac project last Saturday at around 4:00 PM, and by 5:00 PM, I was engaged in removing a huge feral hive under the eaves of a nearby house. All the comb hung down approx 18 inches or more in the center and the length of the hive was almost three feet in length. The discarded comb took up two five gallon buckets! The entire nest was completely covered with about 2 inches of bees making the thing look like one huge black mass. I believe they were preparing to swarm in the next week or so due to the amount of bees present. I also found a supercedure queen cell present which is a good clue.
I vacuumed bees for at least an hour before getting down to the comb which still had a huge amount of bees between the comb wafers. Piece by piece, I cut comb and vacuumed. Eventually, I got approximately 98% of the bees into the vac before a thunderstorm shut me down for an hour or so. After removing the remaining comb from the eaves and loading everything back up, I was in my driveway again at 7:40 PM! Without the bee vac, I wouldn’t have even attempted doing it that late in the day.
The bees were so numerous, they took up two deep hive boxes. I made and used the screen separator which allowed me to put brood into frames in the top hive box while cutting it out, and later pull the screen out to allow the bees to inhabit the brood comb above after all the vacuuming was done.
They spent the night in the garage and were on the way to central Florida the next morning where they now reside in my brothers apiary. Not sure if the queen was captured or survived the ordeal. If not, we’ll re-queen. My brother will do a hive check tomorrow to see if there is any fresh larvae present.
I have two more cut-outs pending in the next few days and am anxious to put the vac back to work.
There was a small bee mortality, approximately two good handfulls of bees. Not sure exactly why? Either trauma, lack of oxygen and too much heat, or bee damage when removing the screen separator. I will try to reduce that number to zero as I get more proficient at this.
Thanks again for your efforts in putting this out to the public domain. It’s such a simple common sense concept.
Kind regards!
Bill
on 18 Sep 2010 at 5:33 pm77Russ

Rob,
I am trying to put together a version of your vac using some hose and other materials I have on hand, and I have some questions. First, it appears that the screen under the vacuum adjustment hole would catch on the edge of the box when the lid is pulled out. Did you recess it to avoid this? Second, is the screen that prevents the bees from being sucked through the hive body and into the vac simply stapled to the bottom edge of the upper frame? If so, seems like that might make it difficult to seal against the hive body. And last, I have typically used exterior latex on our hive bodies, but it leaves a really thick finish that is pretty sticky. I’m afraid this would interfere with the sliding lid. I really like the look of the finish on your vac. What type of finish is that: interior/exterior, paint/stain?
Thanks,
Russ
on 22 Sep 2010 at 4:10 am78Andrew Leo

Robo,thanks for the great posting. I just have a few points I’m not clear on yet.
You show three frames in the box. When do you add more. What do you do with the brood comb after vacuuming. After the hive has been relocated, assuming you’ve vacuumed the queen, After how long should wait before changing out bottom board and if any comb or brood is put along side the three frames, when should they be switched out. Leo
on 22 Sep 2010 at 9:12 am79Robo

Russ,

First, it appears that the screen under the vacuum adjustment hole would catch on the edge of the box when the lid is pulled out. Did you recess it to avoid this?

Yes, the original design (as shown on this page) does have this flaw. But the slide has enough flex to it that it can be pulled up and the screen passes. The vac pictured here is still my primary unit that I use. The vacs I have built since now have the screen on top between a shim block and the top. The pivot bolt for the plexiglass cover is recessed in the bottom of this shim block. Unfortunately, I am currently sold out, so do not have any to show you a picture of the current design.

Rob….

Second, is the screen that prevents the bees from being sucked through the hive body and into the vac simply stapled to the bottom edge of the upper frame? If so, seems like that might make it difficult to seal against the hive body.

Yes, the screen is just stapled to the bottom. A 3/4″ strip of weatherstripping is put over the screen to provide the seal.

I really like the look of the finish on your vac. What type of finish is that: interior/exterior, paint/stain?
I believe that vac was painted with Lowe’s $10/gallon Barn Paint
on 22 Sep 2010 at 9:29 am80Robo

Andrew,

You show three frames in the box. When do you add more.
My current method is to assemble the vac using two empty hive bodies with the cut-out shim between them. If it is a really hot day, I put a couple empty drawn frames with water in the bottom hive body.
What do you do with the brood comb after vacuuming.
I put them in cut-out frames and place them in an empty nuc box. When the cutout is complete, I remove the top of the vac and place all the cut out frames, stored in the nuc, into the top hive body. I fill out the hive body with empty frames. I then release the queen (if caged during the cut out) into the top hive body and replace the top of the vac. Then I pull out the cut-out shim screen that allows the vacuumed bees to move up from the lower hive body into the top hive body and reunite with the queen and brood.
After how long should wait before changing out bottom board and if any comb or brood is put along side the three frames, when should they be switched out.
I’m usually a little impatient and move them to a regular bottom board the next day. Giving them a little more time would not hurt. I usually just pick the top hive body up and replace the lower, empty hive body, and vac bottom with a regular bottom board. I’d them leave them alone for a week and then check back on the queen, if you know you caught her. If not, I check back in a day or two to see if I can find her, eggs, or queen cells.

The less intrusive you can be the better.

Rob…
on 22 Sep 2010 at 5:45 pm81Andrew Leo

Robo, I get it now and have almost competed my be vac without the slope. Might put that in.
Next problem. After tending bees for a few years, just a couple of hives, I have never wanted to
go into the brood box for fear of disturbing too much and as a result have never located a queen.
I was assuming that when vacuuming that I would capture the queen as well. You seem to be suggesting that I won’t get the queen or she’ll get killed and that if I don’t add one they will make one. ????????? Leo
on 22 Sep 2010 at 9:45 pm82Robo

Andrew,

I was assuming that when vacuuming that I would capture the queen as well.
That might be the case, but it is not a fool proof assumption. Sometimes as you work through the cut-out comb by comb, the queen will move deeper and deeper into the nest, especially if you use a lot of smoke. It is also not uncommon for the incoming bees to create a population of bees that are too many for the comb that is left as you get down towards the end and they will cluster in an adjacent space. It is a very good possibility that the queen will move off the comb and into a crack/crevice/void with these bees. If I have not found the queen by the time I get to the last comb, I will vacuum all the bees that I can and then leave the last comb while I clean up my equipment and then go back in 20 minutes or so and remove the comb and check for the queen. This gives her enough time to return to the comb if she has been shooed off into a crack or crevice. If I still didn’t find her, I may but it back in place for a little while longer if I see bees clustered where I can not get them.
You seem to be suggesting that I won’t get the queen or she’ll get killed
I’m not suggesting that you won’t,but just that like everything else in beekeeping, nothing is a given. The only way you can be certain you got the queen is to find her and cage her. You will not get all the bees, so there is a chance that the queen went and hid and you did not get her. There is also the possibility that you did vacuum her up, and once again, chances are she will be OK, but there is the chance she could be killed or injured. So finding her and caging her is the safest bet if possible. You wouldn’t buy a queen and use a vacuum to install her in the hive, so if you have the option during a cut-out I assume you wouldn’t do it either.
and that if I don’t add one they will make one.
If they become queenless for some reason during the cut-out, and you give them back viable brood and eggs, they will attempt to raise a new queen. Normally I’m not a proponent of emergency queens, but if the cut-out is a survivor colony and you want to try and preserve some of the traits, allowing them to raise an emergency queen may be worth a shot.

Robo…..
on 23 Sep 2010 at 3:51 pm83Andrew Leo

Robo, I left out one important factor in my quest. I plan to do this at night with a red light. I’ve not done it before (night) but from what I’m reading it is the new best way. What’s your opinion? Will try to locate queen as suggested. Might be harder at night though. The hive might not be very big,
it has been in the wall only 3 months. Leo
on 24 Sep 2010 at 7:36 am84Robo

Andrew,

I don’t have any advise on night removals, but I know quite a few full time removers who still do it during the day, so I’m not sure of the “new best way”. I guess you’ll have the full population of bees to deal with all at one time. At least during the day, a good population of bees are flying and returning over a longer period of time. I can say I have been unfortunate enough to have to reassemble hives at night that had been knocked over by bear and they where not the most pleasant bees to deal with.

Good luck…..
robo
on 24 Sep 2010 at 10:08 am85Wayne

Hi Robo,

I saw someone above asking for the plans in a pdf format. If they’re available, please can I get a set.

Great videos. Im learning a lot.

Regards

Wayne
on 27 Sep 2010 at 1:59 pm86Robo

Hi Wayne,

Sorry, not yet. I have a long todo list and this seems to have trouble purculating to the top. But be assured, it will be on this page when done.
on 14 Oct 2010 at 5:57 pm87Russ

Rob,

I finished up the bee vac using the swimming pool vacuum hose that others have discussed, since I had some left over from a previous project. It is pretty expensive when bought by the foot at the big box stores (roughly $3.50 a foot) but more reasonable when purchased at pool supply stores. Although smaller diameter (around 1-7/8″) than the standard shop vac hose, it is relatively smooth on the inside, which seems a plus. Also, various screw-on fittings are available at the pool supply stores, or standard PVC plumbing fittings may be adapted. A swivel fitting would have been nice to help keep the hose from coiling up so much in use. I used a 5.5 HP Craftsman shop vac with the standard 2-1/4″ hose for the vacuum.

For the cutout shim I used the 57-S varroa screen from Kelley’s, http://www.kelleybees.com/CMS/CMSPage.aspx?redirect=2d94624c-e6ce-40fc-a190-a4bf9a2867c0, which has a sheet metal edge spot welded to the hardware cloth. This allows the hardware cloth to slide in and out nicely and provides some rigidity to the screen.

We cut some bees out of an old house that was scheduled to be burned, and the vac worked great. The only disappointment was removing the cutout shim screen. I was reminded of your comment above,

“When sliding out the bottom of your box, it is challenging not to get bees caught in the edge and killing them.”

Indeed, pulling out the screen wire killed quite a few bees since they were clustering on the bottom of the screen. The screen cannot really be seen while being withdrawn. Jolting the bees off of the screen really did not work since they were fully packed between the screen and the frame top bars below. The only easy solution I can see is to just open the screen a short distance, maybe an inch or two, and wait a few hours for the bees to move up into the cut-out comb before fully withdrawing it. Or maybe smoke the bees down away from the screen, mount the cut-out hive body on top and pull the screen out quickly before the bees have time to climb back up. Do you have a technique that works well here?

A week later I saw eggs in the cut-out comb, so the queen safely made the trip through the bee vacuum even though we never saw her. Very satisfying.

Thanks for hosting this web site, it has been very useful!

Russ
on 17 Dec 2010 at 6:10 pm88Don M

I read your report about building a combination bee vacuum and Langstroth hive box of about a year ago, and found it very interesting. In one thread, you mention that you use a 2 1/2 inch diameter hose (from Home Depot) to collect your bees. I am wondering if you find that there’s a difference in bee mortality when using a smooth interior hose versus a corrugated interior?
on 17 Dec 2010 at 6:27 pm89Robo

I am wondering if you find that there’s a difference in bee mortality when using a smooth interior hose versus a corrugated interior?

First of all, let me try to address a common misconception about corrugated shop vac house. Although the outside appears very bumpy, the inside bore of the hose is much smoother. I attempted to take a photo, hopefully you can see.

My experience has been, with proper suction, I can get close to no dead bees. I say close, because it is next to impossible to do a removal and not injure a few bees with the nozzle or suck up some debris and/or dead bees. It is not uncommon for me to end up with as few as a couple dozen dead bees in the bottom of the vac when done.

The analogy I like to use is if you run down a windy hallway as fast as you can. With a 2ft wide hallway, you will be hitting the walls many more times than if running down a 4ft wide hallway.

I believe the amount of suction is much more important then the minor corrugations in the shop vac hose. Also with the larger hose, you are less likely to get clogs of bees.

Rob….
on 14 Jan 2011 at 2:13 am90Dennis In The Dale

Robo:

An engineer friend of mine has used your idea of a bee vac along with many of the suggested improvements and made a Bee Vac for me. I have posted some pictures about in on my blog
http://buzzinthedale.blogspot.com/

Thanks for the inspiration.
on 14 Jan 2011 at 8:44 am91Robo

Wow Dennis! That thing is awesome, you have one talented friend.
on 17 Jan 2011 at 10:12 am92Brian Cardinal

Hi Rob,

I think your bee vac is a great idea but what about when you don’t have power available? I made a shop vac for cleaning the parking lots out of a leaf blower. It uses a 30 gal plastic barrel and arranged in a cyclone fashion so there would be no problem with the bees getting killed by hitting an obstruction. The throttle of the engine controls air speed. The rig is mounted on a handcart because when cleaning up sand in the parking lot the barrel gets quite heavy to cart around. Do you see any problem using a leaf blower around bees with the co emission?

I know this wouldn’t put the bees in the hive like you want but the blower could be attached to the hive just as your shop vac is right now if I decided to go that way. I was thinking that I could get the bees into a hive by putting a screen cone on the end of the hose at the entrance of a hive body like you would do for a trap out. Correct me if I am wrong but if I saw eggs in the new hive it would mean I got the queen right? If not they would have to make their own or I suppose I could add one.
on 22 Jan 2011 at 9:35 pm93Andrew J.

Hi robo,

Great blog, you are an engineer through and through. I will be doing a vac in a few days, have a few questions/ideas, please comment:

1. For swarms I would place a few frames in the hive box, as you do. For cutouts, I am concerned about bee mortality when withdrawing wire cloth. This is my plan:

- the top box (air outtake – with no screen,
- for swarms, just use hive boxes with a few frames, well affixed to prevent movement, and a thin shim with screen. More frames can be added later, the shim with screen can be replaced by a top lid.

- for cutouts, make a special vac box that has the same height as width. Top wall – screen, affixed permanently, and perhaps a provision for closing off from outside with a piece of masonite, plywood or whatever. One side wall – sliding off, made of masonite smooth on the inside of the box.

Use of the cutout box:

- vacuum the bees, remove comb to split frames in a separate hive box,
- once done, remove both hoses (cover the IN hole) and the top box with hose attachment, flip the vac box so that the screen is on the side and the removable wall is on top,
- place the box with comb on top of the vac box,
- slide out the removable wall.

I hope that this will keep mortality to minimum.

Also, in the bottom box I plan to staple a piece of carpet opposite the IN hole so that bees would land on it rather than on the hard wall. Is it worth doing?

Andrew
on 01 Feb 2011 at 8:07 pm94Robo

Hi Andrew,

Unfortunately I can’t follow what you are trying to do with your plan. All I can say that is with a little care, bee mortality is minimal (0-5 bees) when pulling out the hardware cloth from the cut-out shim. I have found that slowly pulsing it out gives the bees time to move away. Once I get it 1/2 way out, I leave them be for a while and they will move up into the top box, especially if you have captured the queen and released her in the top box with the brood.

Secondly, I would not recommend the carpet. It adds weight to the setup and also will get pretty nasty from the honey/debris you suck into the vac. Furthermore, with the suction adjusted properly, the bees will basically fall out of the air when the get into the box. The velocity of the air going from 2-1/2″ area of the hose to the ~16×20″ area of the hive can not support the weight of the bees and the only thing that causes them to go further into the box is their momentum.
on 01 Feb 2011 at 8:18 pm95Robo

Brian,

what about when you don’t have power available?

I have a small portable generator I use, but I find 95+% of the time power is available for the cut-outs I do.

I made a shop vac for cleaning the parking lots out of a leaf blower. It uses a 30 gal plastic barrel and arranged in a cyclone fashion so there would be no problem with the bees getting killed by hitting an obstruction.

But they might get some motion sickness How much are they going to get rolled around while making laps in the barrel? Plus, what is going to keep them down in the bottom of the barrel? Their natural tendency is to move upwards, which I assume would put them in the path of the incoming bees.

Do you see any problem using a leaf blower around bees with the co emission?

I don’t know, but the vibration of a gas engine might be another issue. I know some bees get pretty pissy when you use a weed wacker around their hive, and rather quickly, which makes me believe it isn’t the co. Give it a try and let us know.

Correct me if I am wrong but if I saw eggs in the new hive it would mean I got the queen right?

Correct, if you find eggs after 3 days, you know you have the queen. If you see a bunch of queen cells being built, chances are you didn’t.
on 17 Feb 2011 at 4:45 am96Andrew J.

Hi Robo,

Thanks for the comments. I tested my arrangement and it worked to my full satisfaction. I realize that a description may be less than clear. A picture is worth 1000 words – I will email pictures soon and will ask for your opinion.

I will not use carpet. Indeed a bee should quickly slow down once in a box.

I had to make one change, please comment. I use 2 1/2″ hose as you recommend, this is the way to go for sure. However, even with 1500W vac with no bag I have found suction at the end of the big hose too low. At the end of the hose I added a very short piece with 1.25″ diameter, just the sucking end. This made the suction quite good and allowed me to lower the speed of bee travel in the big hose. Hope that you might find this a sensible thing to do.

Once again, m,any thanks for all the advice and suggestions.

Andrew
on 17 Feb 2011 at 10:43 am97Robo

Andrew,

Looking forward to your pictures. Yes, you short piece of 1.25″ is sensible. It provides the same advantage as the crevice tool I use.

Rob..
on 21 Apr 2011 at 8:02 pm98Adam Schreiber

Did my first removal with the Bushkill Vac. It went very well. Very few dead bees. Suction wasn’t great, even with a 5hp vac, but once i duct taped between the supers it made a big difference. I will get some foam weatherstripping to place on the vac boxes for the next try. I blogged about the vac and the removal here -

http://timebeeing.blogspot.com/2011/04/bee-removal-at-oakland-cemetery.html

Thanks for sharing your time and knowledge Rob.
on 07 Jul 2011 at 7:42 am99Cliff Watterson

This looks exactly what I have been looking for here in the UK. I recently removed a swarm for a neighbour from up a tree by knocking the branch allowing the bees to fall into a bucket. Not a great way to do it as the bees flew off, were pretty angry and I had to return several times after they had settled.
I see various comments on motor HP, what do you recommend?
on 07 Jul 2011 at 8:03 am100Robo

@Cliff Watterson,

I recommend the biggest you can get/afford. I use 5 to 6.5 HP vacs myself. Yes some have success with as little as 2 HP, but that requires all seams to be tightly sealed and limits the length of hose. With the bigger vac, you can always reduce suction and the hose end by adjusting the bypass gate. The last situation you want to get into is needing one more section of hose to reach but not having enough vac power to use it.

rob…
on 07 Jul 2011 at 8:23 pm101Gary R.

Robo:
Just wondering why a screen is necessary on the top bypass hole, since the bottom of the top section is screened.
on 07 Jul 2011 at 8:45 pm102Robo

@Gary R.
To prevent sucking stray bees through the vacuum motor.
rob….
on 08 Sep 2011 at 7:28 pm103Tom Cannon

I built your vac using a 5 frame nuc box and so far so good. I use a 3 HP Sear shop vac with weather stripping and after cutting out some brood and putting into frames the bees seem to have a easier time making the transition to a new home. Thanks for sharing this idea with the bee keepers.
on 09 Jan 2012 at 10:34 pm104Scott

Robo: I purchased your beevac late in the swarm season last year, and I just got a lead on my very first cutout, to be done in the Spring. I have already successfully captured a swarmCan you tell me how warm it should be, what time of day is best and should I be looking to do it early in the AM to get as many foraging bees as possible? In addition, any other tips for a cut out “first timer” using your rig would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
on 10 Jan 2012 at 2:16 pm105Robo

@Scott

I usually wait until night time temperatures are in the 40s and the bees are bringing in pollen. There are pro and cons to the time of day. I usually like to wait until it warms up so that the brood doesn’t get chilled when not covered with bees. Check out the videos here for some addition tips/suggestions -> http://beevac.com/videos/